Negotiating with Carl Lewis

As I prepare to ask Carl Lewis about his negotiation experience, he receives a phone call from Don King. He is taking a trip to Russia to represent Don on an upcoming boxing match.  From eavesdropping on his call with Don, it is obvious that Lewis is a very busy man who knows his stuff!

Carl has been a practicing attorney for over 20 years.  He received all three of his degrees from the University of Cincinnati in 85’, 86’, and 89’.  While in college, Lewis promoted concerts and represented songwriters in copywriting ventures. After college, Carl moved to Louisville working in insurance defense.  In 1990 he moved to Ohio and began working in white-collar public defense. In 1991, He started his private practice, Lewis Law Firm Inc., in Cincinnati, OH. By 1992, Carl was representing his first fighter who was on the same Olympic team as Mexican boxer Oscar De La Hoya.  Since then he has focused primarily on representing boxers.  Carl has worked with celebrities such as Don King and Daymond John.  He has also participated in negotiation deals with networks such as HBO and ESPN.

(All background information was obtained from Carl during the phone interview)

After a few days playing phone tag, I was able to link up with Lewis for a brief phone interview.

Kiera: What inspired you to pursue entertainment law?

I have a very strong musical background.  I’ve been playing piano for years.  I love music and entertainment, and wanted to find a way to tie my musical background with my legal training.  Instead of being a performer, I wanted to provide legal council to other performers and athletes. 

Kiera: What types of negotiations do you make on a day-to-day basis?

Carl: Oftentimes I work directly with songwriters, musicians, and producers on contracts, production deals, and publishing.  On the boxing side, I represent fighters in negotiating their management contracts, promotional deals, and compensation.  I also represent them in deals with television networks such as HBO, ESPN, and Showtime.   I never represent the production company; I represent the actual fighters themselves. I handle a lot of negotiation deals that focus on the promotional packages for the fighters.  We are negotiating those types of deals everyday.

Kiera: What is the key to finding mutual benefit for both parties while negotiating?

Carl:  The world famous boxing promoter Don King taught it to me best… you’ll love this! He told me, “When you’re negotiating, working together works”.  That’s my philosophy when we are making deals.  I’m not working against the opposite party, we are working together.  We have to try to compromise.  The beauty of negotiation in entertainment is that when you are working with a huge artist, such as Beyonce, sometimes it’s a ‘take it or leave it’ deal because they are so popular. Those negotiations are usually easy. However, when you are dealing with an up and coming artist or fighter, there is always room for negotiation, but I always try to make the deal a team effort and not a fight between two separate parties. 

Kiera: Have you ever been in a situation where positional bargaining was used and neither party came to an agreement.

Carl: Several.  Sometimes you have to agree to disagree.  My mindset is, if we cant make a deal today, we can make one tomorrow.  Going back and forth is never productive. Maybe you have to walk away, regroup, and try again.  Sometimes it’s more beneficial to both parties to make an agreement than to not do business with each other at all. 

Kiera: This is my last question. Can you give me an example of how you’ve used objective criteria in negotiations?

Carl: My firm is actually handling a case right now where my client thinks her case is worth 1 million and the opposite party wants to settle on minimal dollars.   We’ve been in negotiation for about two or three days now.  We are now about $35,000 apart and we need to close the deal.  Looking at the objective criteria, it is clear that my client is negotiating too high and this has assisted in our decision to lower our deal. 

Kiera: Well, I think that’s all I have for you! Thanks so much for taking the time to talk to me.

Carl: No Problem! Keep doing well in school!